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Re: Discussion

Post by Caspoi on Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:32 pm

Eh, they are replenished. The fact that they are (quite forcefully) uniting to one single purpose means that there will only be more to come if they ever have to fight against an outside threat.

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Re: Discussion

Post by Joe Joerson on Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:47 pm

Well yes but the amount of causalities that they take may be replenished, but only over a large enough period of time. This great decrease in total population only bodes ill for when they run into others, or when others run into them. With no easy way to communicate between most species and the Swarm, and the Swarm's, unusual, eating habits, contact might not go so well. So with a depleted population base and potentially hostile relations with many species, some witch may have had larger populations to begin with, does not seem to end in happy times for the Swarm.

As well the war doesn't seem as though it is likely to end quickly with Gamma Swarm seemingly trying to stop Unification. This seems like a long, very long and bloody war. They may be replenished but other species may out colonize them as they devote resources towards the war effort. It has the chance to be very dangerous for the Swarm as a whole as if other species out colonize them, they can then out produce, out tech and out populate them given enough time.

Assuming that war doesn't erupt between other empires (unlikely) the Swarm is very likely doomed. However if war does erupt their chances depend on the scale, length, and brutality of such a war.

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Re: Discussion

Post by Caspoi on Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:54 pm

Not too long I think, but yes this will hit them very hard. I also wouldn't say that Gamma Swarm want's to stop unification any more than the others, it is just that the whole "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" apllies between them and Beta Swarm right about now. If Beta Home fell then it would be just a matter of time until Gamma Home did so as well as then Alfa Swarm would have more Worlds, more troops, more of everything really. thus it was more prudent to strike them when they were vulnerable and use skirmish tactics until they feel that they have a large enough advantage to defeat them head on.

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Re: Discussion

Post by Joe Joerson on Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:14 pm

@Caspoi wrote:Not too long I think, but yes this will hit them very hard. I also wouldn't say that Gamma Swarm want's to stop unification any more than the others, it is just that the whole "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" apllies between them and Beta Swarm right about now. If Beta Home fell then it would be just a matter of time until Gamma Home did so as well as then Alfa Swarm would have more Worlds, more troops, more of everything really. thus it was more prudent to strike them when they were vulnerable and use skirmish tactics until they feel that they have a large enough advantage to defeat them head on.

Well from the position of weakness Gamma Swarm is in, effectively it cannot unite the swarms. Only attempt to keep them apart and thus able to fight whichever side is winning until a balance is reached. Their best hope is stalemate. Unless the other Swarms were foolish enough to keep sending troops to the meat grinder until they were left with heavily depopulated worlds that is. Though Alfa Swarm is likely going to be their enemy for a long time as there was a large population drain of the other swarms in addition to losing many resources, Alfa Swarm however has a much larger pool of resource to draw from, until either Alfa swarm is significantly depopulated or otherwise deprived of accessing those resources all the other Swarms will have to work together if they hope to survive. Even with the precursor warship they can only hold on for so long. It can only be in one place at a time. If Alfa Swarm was Not united against then it could easily take the other squabbling worlds or continue extensive colonization. Even if Gamma Swarm can destroy an entire war fleet of Alfa Swarm, Alfa Swarm can easily have two or more making them unable to defeat them all. Gamma Swarm just doesn't really have the resources to feasibly take control of the worlds under wartime conditions.

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Re: Discussion

Post by The Clans on Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:23 pm

This entire situation may become even more destabilized. The migrant traders have arrived. Now, I know what you're all thinking "You can't reason with a race of bugs, much less trade with them. You're insane." Well, to the FSIH, while some markets are easier to get into than others, no market is truly impenetrable.

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Re: Discussion

Post by Joe Joerson on Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:28 pm

Theclans wrote:This entire situation may become even more destabilized. The migrant traders have arrived. Now, I know what you're all thinking "You can't reason with a race of bugs, much less trade with them. You're insane." Well, to the FSIH, while some markets are easier to get into than others, no market is truly impenetrable.

Right, even if you have to take the payment from them yourself and decide what goods they wanted in return.
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Re: Discussion

Post by Caspoi on Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:26 am

@Joe Joerson wrote:
@Caspoi wrote:Not too long I think, but yes this will hit them very hard. I also wouldn't say that Gamma Swarm want's to stop unification any more than the others, it is just that the whole "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" apllies between them and Beta Swarm right about now. If Beta Home fell then it would be just a matter of time until Gamma Home did so as well as then Alfa Swarm would have more Worlds, more troops, more of everything really. thus it was more prudent to strike them when they were vulnerable and use skirmish tactics until they feel that they have a large enough advantage to defeat them head on.

Well from the position of weakness Gamma Swarm is in, effectively it cannot unite the swarms. Only attempt to keep them apart and thus able to fight whichever side is winning until a balance is reached. Their best hope is stalemate. Unless the other Swarms were foolish enough to keep sending troops to the meat grinder until they were left with heavily depopulated worlds that is. Though Alfa Swarm is likely going to be their enemy for a long time as there was a large population drain of the other swarms in addition to losing many resources, Alfa Swarm however has a much larger pool of resource to draw from, until either Alfa swarm is significantly depopulated or otherwise deprived of accessing those resources all the other Swarms will have to work together if they hope to survive. Even with the precursor warship they can only hold on for so long. It can only be in one place at a time. If Alfa Swarm was Not united against then it could easily take the other squabbling worlds or continue extensive colonization. Even if Gamma Swarm can destroy an entire war fleet of Alfa Swarm, Alfa Swarm can easily have two or more making them unable to defeat them all. Gamma Swarm just doesn't really have the resources to feasibly take control of the worlds under wartime conditions.

You make them sound like Great Britain. However it should be noted that the swarms can draw recruits from conquered Worlds so it is not impossible that they woulds succeed if they basically conquered Everything but Alfa Home, still not garanteed though.

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Re: Discussion

Post by Caspoi on Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:27 am

Theclans wrote:This entire situation may become even more destabilized. The migrant traders have arrived. Now, I know what you're all thinking "You can't reason with a race of bugs, much less trade with them. You're insane." Well, to the FSIH, while some markets are easier to get into than others, no market is truly impenetrable.

I do not Think that this disproves the idea about them being insane. By the way how do I multiquote?

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Re: Discussion

Post by Offizier Necro on Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:34 pm

Just announcing this so no one thinks I'm being shifty: I'm going to be removing "materialist" from the Freeman government ethos for now since it's secular and not really state atheist. This is also to reflect the fact humanity doesn't know much about the universe it inhabits yet, so its stance towards dealing with aliens has yet to be set in stone. Are aliens not to be trusted and we can only trust our own? Is the galaxy a hostile place that demands a solid sword to face against its horrors? Are aliens just misunderstood people and can be negotiated with for mutual benefit? I could easily see the Crucible of Freemen becoming a military republic if a war breaks out.

On a semi-related note, I rediscovered a funny commercial.
Spoiler:


@Caspoi wrote:By the way how do I multiquote?
Click "citation multiple" on the posts you want to quote.
Example:
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Re: Discussion

Post by Caspoi on Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:41 pm

@Offizier Necro wrote:Just announcing this so no one thinks I'm being shifty: I'm going to be removing "materialist" from the Freeman government ethos for now since it's secular and not really state atheist. This is also to reflect the fact humanity doesn't know much about the universe it inhabits yet, so its stance towards dealing with aliens has yet to be set in stone. Are aliens not to be trusted and we can only trust our own? Is the galaxy a hostile place that demands a solid sword to face against its horrors? Are aliens just misunderstood people and can be negotiated with for mutual benefit? I could easily see the Crucible of Freemen becoming a military republic if a war breaks out.

On a semi-related note, I rediscovered a funny commercial.
Spoiler:


@Caspoi wrote:By the way how do I multiquote?
Click "citation multiple" on the posts you want to quote.
Example:

Yes but how do I insert them, also what are you going to have as a second ethos, and a secular state could probably be used to justify non-fanatic materialism.

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Re: Discussion

Post by Offizier Necro on Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:15 pm

@Caspoi wrote:Yes but how do I insert them
Just hit the "post reply" button. Instead of starting with a blank text box, it'll have all the quotes you selected.


@Caspoi wrote:also what are you going to have as a second ethos
My second ethos will be left blank for now. You don't actually have to use all of your ethos points in Stellaris, but it's usually a good idea to do so since they give benefits. I think it's a bit ridiculous that Stellaris governments never reform or drift in their ethos, even after hundreds of years and several revolutions that completely change the form of government from theocracies and dictatorships to democracies and bureaucracies, but as the Crucible is still recently-founded I'd like to leave it a bit more flexible than that before it gets set in stone. It doesn't have solidified doctrines and foreign policies yet.


@Caspoi wrote:and a secular state could probably be used to justify non-fanatic materialism.
I thought that at first, but the first line of moderate materialism's description is pretty solidly atheist or even antitheist: "As we reach for the stars, we must put away childish things; gods, spirits and other phantasms of the brain."
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Re: Discussion

Post by Vagrant Hero on Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:59 pm

Indeed, just take a look at my Carraxian Conclave for exhibit A in antitheism, and the conditions that brought it about.
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Re: Discussion

Post by The Clans on Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:06 am

Not being able to change government ethos is a bit toss.
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Re: Discussion

Post by Joe Joerson on Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:39 am

@Offizier Necro wrote:Just announcing this so no one thinks I'm being shifty: I'm going to be removing "materialist" from the Freeman government ethos for now since it's secular and not really state atheist. This is also to reflect the fact humanity doesn't know much about the universe it inhabits yet, so its stance towards dealing with aliens has yet to be set in stone. Are aliens not to be trusted and we can only trust our own? Is the galaxy a hostile place that demands a solid sword to face against its horrors? Are aliens just misunderstood people and can be negotiated with for mutual benefit? I could easily see the Crucible of Freemen becoming a military republic if a war breaks out.

Hmm it will certainly be an interesting future for them. However if Caspoi's bugs have their way...

Possibilities:

Not entirely what it would be but you get the idea.

Theclans wrote:Not being able to change government ethos is a bit toss.

Yes, it will likely be changed in the future. However fun times in the meantime:

Pick Xenophobic and Individualist ethos.

Conquer Galaxy.

Exterminate all life except your own.

Destroy all happiness buildings and bonuses.

Watch Empire collapse.

Then repeat killing off the variant sub species, researching so as to be able to support the Galactic Navy with a core empire section with all the repeatable technologies.

Repeat (x) times.

Crash computer.
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Re: Discussion

Post by Offizier Necro on Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:10 am

@Joe Joerson wrote:
@Offizier Necro wrote:Just announcing this so no one thinks I'm being shifty: I'm going to be removing "materialist" from the Freeman government ethos for now since it's secular and not really state atheist. This is also to reflect the fact humanity doesn't know much about the universe it inhabits yet, so its stance towards dealing with aliens has yet to be set in stone. Are aliens not to be trusted and we can only trust our own? Is the galaxy a hostile place that demands a solid sword to face against its horrors? Are aliens just misunderstood people and can be negotiated with for mutual benefit? I could easily see the Crucible of Freemen becoming a military republic if a war breaks out.

Hmm it will certainly be an interesting future for them. However if Caspoi's bugs have their way...

Possibilities:

Not entirely what it would be but you get the idea.
"Remember, you're only as free as you're willing to be. Man up and become a true Freeman, enlist today!" Razz

I finished watching Starship Troopers 1 on my DVR, saw the hive ship thread (which I'll respond to when done with the current thread), and read a tweet from a Stellaris dev referencing Helldivers all around the same time. The "Would you like to know more" stuff definitely was giving me some ideas since the Space Bugs are coming.

Although, this could go entirely peacefully and not prompt any militaristic tendencies to be riled up, but it's fun to dream Smile
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Re: Discussion

Post by Caspoi on Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:16 am

I feel like I am missing out on something not having watched that movie, is it good? Also do not presume that the ship is necessarily what you think that it is.

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Re: Discussion

Post by Vagrant Hero on Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:25 am

I personally found the movie to be a bit boring, but it had some great moments. It wouldn't be a waste of time to watch it.
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Re: Discussion

Post by Offizier Necro on Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:48 am

@Caspoi wrote:I feel like I am missing out on something not having watched that movie, is it good?
I'm a sucker for gimmicks so my personal enjoyment is not good critique, but it seems like it's more enjoyed for it's reference/classic factor than it raw quality. It has amazing effects for its time, though, so I don't really know if it's good or not with my poor review ability.

@Caspoi wrote:Also do not presume that the ship is necessarily what you think that it is.
Judging from it being slower-than-light and being massive, I expect it to be a colony ship rather than a warship. Possibly a bug equivalent of a scout/probe, but the massive size implies it's more than that. The prior history of STL colonization by the Swarm suggests that this would be a staple case of such. If my "math" is right, this should be a pretty funny/awkward meeting. "Oh, uh... Sorry, we thought this planet wasn't taken. What do we do now? Spend the next decade flying back? Oh jeez."
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Re: Discussion

Post by Caspoi on Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:51 am

Quite right, it is a Hiveship from a pre-warp age. And it wouldn't take them a decade but two centuries to fly back, they won't attempt it any time soon.

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Re: Discussion

Post by Offizier Necro on Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:55 am

@Caspoi wrote:Quite right, it is a Hiveship from a pre-warp age. And it wouldn't take them a decade but two centuries to fly back, they won't attempt it any time soon.
Whoo, I got it right Very Happy
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Re: Discussion

Post by Caspoi on Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:39 am

My second empire is up if you are interested.

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Re: Discussion

Post by Vagrant Hero on Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:39 am

@Offizier Necro wrote:
@Caspoi wrote:Quite right, it is a Hiveship from a pre-warp age. And it wouldn't take them a decade but two centuries to fly back, they won't attempt it any time soon.
Whoo, I got it right Very Happy


The swarm has come.

The Swarm Wars:






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Re: Discussion

Post by Caspoi on Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:42 am

Hey, they have not gone to war with aliens, yet.

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Re: Discussion

Post by Offizier Necro on Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:25 am

Alright, I'm heading to bed now but I'd just like to apologize for my delay in posting in the recon/pirate/etc thread. I'm almost done with this online driver course, but it's 2:20AM right now. Too late to confidently take a test. However, I'll be finished and better able to post after I finish this darn course that I've taken too long to get done.

ALSO VAGRANT I SEE YOUR TREASONOUS AVATAR. STOP THAT NONSENSE AT ONCE.

REMEMBER BUENOS AIRES. NEVER FORGET. o7
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Re: Discussion

Post by Vagrant Hero on Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:39 am

@Offizier Necro wrote:

ALSO VAGRANT I SEE YOUR TREASONOUS AVATAR. STOP THAT NONSENSE AT ONCE.

REMEMBER BUENOS AIRES. NEVER FORGET. o7

Buenos Aires was a false flag and was allowed by the government to happen in order to get support for the war from the general populace! They knew about that asteroid well in advance and could have stopped it if the protection of their citizenry had been their true aim. Instead, it was used as provocation to start a war across the star and commit genocide on a wide scale. #BuenosAiresTruth
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Re: Discussion

Post by Joe Joerson on Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:15 pm

@Vagrant Hero wrote:Buenos Aires was a false flag and was allowed by the government to happen in order to get support for the war from the general populace! They knew about that asteroid well in advance and could have stopped it if the protection of their citizenry had been their true aim. Instead, it was used as provocation to start a war across the star and commit genocide on a wide scale. #BuenosAiresTruth

Now this just makes me want to do a false flag operation, and from the view point of the Xengari that actually might be a good idea...
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Re: Discussion

Post by Vagrant Hero on Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:42 pm

@Joe Joerson wrote:Now this just makes me want to do a false flag operation, and from the view point of the Xengari that actually might be a good idea...

I highly recommend partaking in the devious trickery that our modern governments have showcased so well. Perhaps this will even inspire a counter-movement of Xengari who are only mildly Xenophobic and, after learning about the truth of the incident, begin re-evaluating their stance on aliens and decide that they can't possibly all be bad. Maybe. But probably not.
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Re: Discussion

Post by The Clans on Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:15 pm

@Joe Joerson wrote:
Hmm it will certainly be an interesting future for them. However if Caspoi's bugs have their way...

Possibilities:

Not entirely what it would be but you get the idea.

This is why humanity is doomed to failure. Not once did someone try to climb on top of the bug and attempt to either ride or slap explosives on it. Amateurs.

As for Starship Troopers, it's great if you like campy cheese. In theory I should like it, but I read the book first so I ragequit when I tried to watch it. You can't be part of the Mobile Infantry without what makes the Mobile Infantry mobile: cryogenically stored jump jet power armor that lobs mini nukes at everything. Also there were no male pilots, they were all female because women were able to do the math necessary for landing and reentering orbit faster than men, for whatever reason. Oh, and they were all bald so hair wouldn't get in the way in zero G.

In closing, book is amazing, watch the movie first but know you're walking into a total cheese fest.
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Re: Discussion

Post by Offizier Necro on Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:21 pm

Theclans wrote:
@Joe Joerson wrote:
Hmm it will certainly be an interesting future for them. However if Caspoi's bugs have their way...

Possibilities:

Not entirely what it would be but you get the idea.

This is why humanity is doomed to failure. Not once did someone try to climb on top of the bug and attempt to either ride or slap explosives on it. Amateurs.
I can tell you didn't finish the movie either, since that actually happens in the movie. Well, technically it's shooting a hole into the top of a giant bug and then throwing explosives into its insides rather than onto the bug's top, but still.
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Re: Discussion

Post by Vagrant Hero on Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:37 pm

@Offizier Necro wrote:
Theclans wrote:
@Joe Joerson wrote:
Hmm it will certainly be an interesting future for them. However if Caspoi's bugs have their way...

Possibilities:

Not entirely what it would be but you get the idea.

This is why humanity is doomed to failure. Not once did someone try to climb on top of the bug and attempt to either ride or slap explosives on it. Amateurs.
I can tell you didn't finish the movie either, since that actually happens in the movie. Well, technically it's shooting a hole into the top of a giant bug and then throwing explosives into its insides rather than onto the bug's top, but still.

I, for one, would like to know more.
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Re: Discussion

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