Discussion

Alright, good night then, see ya tomorrow.

I wonder, should there be some "recruitment effort" considering how we are fairly few right now and there seems to be an upsurge of renewed Stellaris roleplaying enthusiasm on the main forum?

I wondered that as well upon seeing the new enthusiasm, however it would be less than polite to simply go into their thread and post 'Hey it looks like you guys are having fun, why don't you completely abandon this and go to our forum instead!'

Simply put it would be wise if one were to do such to either

A: Create new recruitment thread.

B: Resurrect the old not very good recruitment thread.

C: Start conversations with the individual people

D: Not actually care about being polite at all and just doing exactly what I said previously

E: Not actually try to recruit anybody

I don't really post on the Paradox forums, so I don't have much experience to know what would be the best strategy. I'd suggest options A or C, as it's very rude to barge in on random people's RPs and try to kill their in the RPs' own threads, which would also push people to avoid joining "those annoying jerks". If we recruit people 'peacefully', then that would avoid a pushback effect.


Unrelated to anything, but just thought I'd share it because the thread's quieted down and I don't have anything else to add: That thing where the Freemen were kept quarantining and otherwise taking excessive precautions with anyone who interacted in person with aliens at first is actually based off of an IRL policy with the Moon missions, where everyone visiting the Moon would be forced into quarantine for a while in the unlikely event of pathogens living on the Moon. This stopped once we 100% confirmed a lack of any and all life on the moon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Quarantine_Facility

Offizier Necro wrote:I don't really post on the Paradox forums, so I don't have much experience to know what would be the best strategy. I'd suggest options A or C, as it's very rude to barge in on random people's RPs and try to kill their in the RPs' own threads, which would also push people to avoid joining "those annoying jerks". If we recruit people 'peacefully', then that would avoid a pushback effect.


Unrelated to anything, but just thought I'd share it because the thread's quieted down and I don't have anything else to add: That thing where the Freemen were kept quarantining and otherwise taking excessive precautions with anyone who interacted in person with aliens at first is actually based off of an IRL policy with the Moon missions, where everyone visiting the Moon would be forced into quarantine for a while in the unlikely event of pathogens living on the Moon. This stopped once we 100% confirmed a lack of any and all life on the moon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Quarantine_Facility

Thinking about such quarantines diseases wouldn't really spread that well between aliens and Humans would they? (Or Aliens and other Aliens.) I mean there would be a very low chance of a disease being effective by pure evolution alone.

Though admittedly that thinking probably doesn't help when that small chance turns out true does it...

...I feel bad for the Martians from H.G. Well's book. Never saw it coming...

...Even if they did eat tons of humans essentially, though that probably didn't help on that whole disease front...

IRL, it's unlikely that terrestrial and extraterrestrial life would be remotely compatible in terms of chemical makeup, since something as simple as being exactly the same but with mirrored molecules would result in humans being incapable of eating alien food and vice versa. Bacteria and parasites able to thrive in the differing oxygen levels and chemical makeup of such a bizarre and incompatible beast? No way.

However, in Stellaris, all alien life is apparently so similar and compatible that both food and atmospheres are exactly fitting to all sapient life forms, even though the atmosphere of just Earth (and thus its life) has changed many times over its own history. This is a big reason why I suspect that precursor civilizations in the Stellaris universe did some meddling somewhere, such as seeding all life and putting in some kind of DNA code to facilitate all life being at the same atmosphere and of similar chemical makeup. They could have possibly done this to colonize the galaxy at a later date, but they could have died off at some point millions (or maybe thousands) of years ago resulting in an abandoned galaxy-sized orphanage trying to assimilate the other kids constantly.

It wouldn't be a huge stretch in the Stellaris universe for a disease to be compatible with two alien species, given how otherwise compatible they all are.

Applying this to the Brave New World RP, your idea could very easily be part of the lore. I imagine the Xenophiles would have a nasty shock when they figured out that Captain Kirk style "relations" with a specific alien race gave them necrotic STDs.

Hey, Vagrant Hero, you are back. Will you respond in our thread?

Yes. I will.

So, regarding the other roleplayers what should we do about them? They are more likely to join us the sooner we ask.

Joe Joerson wrote:

Offizier Necro wrote:I don't really post on the Paradox forums, so I don't have much experience to know what would be the best strategy. I'd suggest options A or C, as it's very rude to barge in on random people's RPs and try to kill their in the RPs' own threads, which would also push people to avoid joining "those annoying jerks". If we recruit people 'peacefully', then that would avoid a pushback effect.


Unrelated to anything, but just thought I'd share it because the thread's quieted down and I don't have anything else to add: That thing where the Freemen were kept quarantining and otherwise taking excessive precautions with anyone who interacted in person with aliens at first is actually based off of an IRL policy with the Moon missions, where everyone visiting the Moon would be forced into quarantine for a while in the unlikely event of pathogens living on the Moon. This stopped once we 100% confirmed a lack of any and all life on the moon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Quarantine_Facility

Thinking about such quarantines diseases wouldn't really spread that well between aliens and Humans would they? (Or Aliens and other Aliens.) I mean there would be a very low chance of a disease being effective by pure evolution alone.

Though admittedly that thinking probably doesn't help when that small chance turns out true does it...

...I feel bad for the Martians from H.G. Well's book. Never saw it coming...

...Even if they did eat tons of humans essentially, though that probably didn't help on that whole disease front...

The only model we have to work with is what we have here on Earth. A lot of diseases are perfectly happy chilling out in cows, sheep, and other animals. It's only by mistake that the diseases we know as plagues jumped from animal to human. They don't want to kill their host, because then they die too, but because they're in the wrong host they accidentally kill the host quickly and then spread like wildfire if you happen to live in a pre-1900s city.

Even though most of the population was concentrated in the countryside at that time (cities were living furnaces with people as fuel and disease as the fire before the Sanitary Movement happened, every city depended on constant immigration from the countryside because peoe died so often cities could not sustain themselves organically), people were so spread out that there'd be the occasional guy who got smallpox or other disease, but it wouldn't wipe out a whole village or anything because of the low population density and cleaner area. Cities were the perfect breeding ground for animal-based diseases, hundreds of people and animals enteri g it a day, people crammed together with no sewers, poop in the street. So long as everyone has medical quarantines and sewers, inter-alien diseases shouldn't be that big of a deal (aside from the odd small outbreak) unless an alien decides to shit in the water treatment plant and then by chance one of the diseases they're a carrier for decides to divide the wrong way and is able to infect another species.

The Clans wrote:

Joe Joerson wrote:

Offizier Necro wrote:I don't really post on the Paradox forums, so I don't have much experience to know what would be the best strategy. I'd suggest options A or C, as it's very rude to barge in on random people's RPs and try to kill their in the RPs' own threads, which would also push people to avoid joining "those annoying jerks". If we recruit people 'peacefully', then that would avoid a pushback effect.


Unrelated to anything, but just thought I'd share it because the thread's quieted down and I don't have anything else to add: That thing where the Freemen were kept quarantining and otherwise taking excessive precautions with anyone who interacted in person with aliens at first is actually based off of an IRL policy with the Moon missions, where everyone visiting the Moon would be forced into quarantine for a while in the unlikely event of pathogens living on the Moon. This stopped once we 100% confirmed a lack of any and all life on the moon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Quarantine_Facility

Thinking about such quarantines diseases wouldn't really spread that well between aliens and Humans would they? (Or Aliens and other Aliens.) I mean there would be a very low chance of a disease being effective by pure evolution alone.

Though admittedly that thinking probably doesn't help when that small chance turns out true does it...

...I feel bad for the Martians from H.G. Well's book. Never saw it coming...

...Even if they did eat tons of humans essentially, though that probably didn't help on that whole disease front...

The only model we have to work with is what we have here on Earth. A lot of diseases are perfectly happy chilling out in cows, sheep, and other animals. It's only by mistake that the diseases we know as plagues jumped from animal to human. They don't want to kill their host, because then they die too, but because they're in the wrong host they accidentally kill the host quickly and then spread like wildfire if you happen to live in a pre-1900s city.

Even though most of the population was concentrated in the countryside at that time (cities were living furnaces with people as fuel and disease as the fire before the Sanitary Movement happened, every city depended on constant immigration from the countryside because peoe died so often cities could not sustain themselves organically), people were so spread out that there'd be the occasional guy who got smallpox or other disease, but it wouldn't wipe out a whole village or anything because of the low population density and cleaner area. Cities were the perfect breeding ground for animal-based diseases, hundreds of people and animals enteri g it a day, people crammed together with no sewers, poop in the street. So long as everyone has medical quarantines and sewers, inter-alien diseases shouldn't be that big of a deal (aside from the odd small outbreak) unless an alien decides to shit in the water treatment plant and then by chance one of the diseases they're a carrier for decides to divide the wrong way and is able to infect another species.

The point is that terrestrial and extraterrestial life would be incompatible, preventing alien pathogens' survival in a host to begin with, let alone thriving enough to be a disease. A terrestrial bacteria, parasite, or virus can't use a blurgletron's building blocks for use in its own body as it would have completely different building blocks. Two animals on Earth are both related at some point in the distant past, and even the plants and fungi are as well. They all have proteins, vitamins, and so on in common that the bacteria and such rely upon for their food, but pathogens from another world are evolved to be compatible with an entirely different chemical makeup.

Offizier Necro wrote:

The Clans wrote:

Joe Joerson wrote:

Offizier Necro wrote:I don't really post on the Paradox forums, so I don't have much experience to know what would be the best strategy. I'd suggest options A or C, as it's very rude to barge in on random people's RPs and try to kill their in the RPs' own threads, which would also push people to avoid joining "those annoying jerks". If we recruit people 'peacefully', then that would avoid a pushback effect.


Unrelated to anything, but just thought I'd share it because the thread's quieted down and I don't have anything else to add: That thing where the Freemen were kept quarantining and otherwise taking excessive precautions with anyone who interacted in person with aliens at first is actually based off of an IRL policy with the Moon missions, where everyone visiting the Moon would be forced into quarantine for a while in the unlikely event of pathogens living on the Moon. This stopped once we 100% confirmed a lack of any and all life on the moon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Quarantine_Facility

Thinking about such quarantines diseases wouldn't really spread that well between aliens and Humans would they? (Or Aliens and other Aliens.) I mean there would be a very low chance of a disease being effective by pure evolution alone.

Though admittedly that thinking probably doesn't help when that small chance turns out true does it...

...I feel bad for the Martians from H.G. Well's book. Never saw it coming...

...Even if they did eat tons of humans essentially, though that probably didn't help on that whole disease front...

The only model we have to work with is what we have here on Earth. A lot of diseases are perfectly happy chilling out in cows, sheep, and other animals. It's only by mistake that the diseases we know as plagues jumped from animal to human. They don't want to kill their host, because then they die too, but because they're in the wrong host they accidentally kill the host quickly and then spread like wildfire if you happen to live in a pre-1900s city.

Even though most of the population was concentrated in the countryside at that time (cities were living furnaces with people as fuel and disease as the fire before the Sanitary Movement happened, every city depended on constant immigration from the countryside because peoe died so often cities could not sustain themselves organically), people were so spread out that there'd be the occasional guy who got smallpox or other disease, but it wouldn't wipe out a whole village or anything because of the low population density and cleaner area. Cities were the perfect breeding ground for animal-based diseases, hundreds of people and animals enteri g it a day, people crammed together with no sewers, poop in the street. So long as everyone has medical quarantines and sewers, inter-alien diseases shouldn't be that big of a deal (aside from the odd small outbreak) unless an alien decides to shit in the water treatment plant and then by chance one of the diseases they're a carrier for decides to divide the wrong way and is able to infect another species.

The point is that terrestrial and extraterrestial life would be incompatible, preventing alien pathogens' survival in a host to begin with, let alone thriving enough to be a disease. A terrestrial bacteria, parasite, or virus can't use a blurgletron's building blocks for use in its own body as it would have completely different building blocks. Two animals on Earth are both related at some point in the distant past, and even the plants and fungi are as well. They all have proteins, vitamins, and so on in common that the bacteria and such rely upon for their food, but pathogens from another world are evolved to be compatible with an entirely different chemical makeup.

You already mentioned that, then the whole precursor civilization thing came up. I can't add to chemistry, but I can add to biology. Now shut up and post.

The Clans wrote:

Offizier Necro wrote:The point is that terrestrial and extraterrestial life would be incompatible, preventing alien pathogens' survival in a host to begin with, let alone thriving enough to be a disease. A terrestrial bacteria, parasite, or virus can't use a blurgletron's building blocks for use in its own body as it would have completely different building blocks. Two animals on Earth are both related at some point in the distant past, and even the plants and fungi are as well. They all have proteins, vitamins, and so on in common that the bacteria and such rely upon for their food, but pathogens from another world are evolved to be compatible with an entirely different chemical makeup.

You already mentioned that, then the whole precursor civilization thing came up. I can't add to chemistry, but I can add to biology. Now shut up and post.

In conclusion, inter-alien disease in Stellaris is possible and I am also a potato.

I've decided I will not be continuing my activities on this site. I've had fun here, but I'm going to be an obstacle in the future if I remain. I hope you all can get new members and continue RPing without my presence. Will probably want to get rid of some stuff to make the forum palatable to newer recruits. Don't want to scare them off.

This is saddening.

Yeah, there's no reason for you to leave.

If that is what you wish to do we certainly can't stop you. We do not want you to go but if that is what you want, be free to do so. While this is regrettable we can continue from this.

Even if you feel that you cannot continue, please stay in contact, I don't know why you feel that you would be an obstacle but I am sure none of us think of you so.

Now while only Vagrant Hero can decide whether to stay or go there are somethings to discuss about this event for the rest of the forum members, depending of course on the distinction that Vagrant Hero does not decide to rejoin the forum.

On condition that Vagrant Hero does not decide to rejoin the forum:

Their upcoming war with the Xengari could be the solution, just have that the xengari won the war but it escalated to the Point that the Cirnii empire is practically gone.

So that outage was 'cause of an issue on Forumotion's part nothing I can do something with their servers.

Caspoi wrote:Their upcoming war with the Xengari could be the solution, just have that the xengari won the war but it escalated to the Point that the Cirnii empire is practically gone.

Thank you for the suggestion but I was more looking if we should do that at all or just leave it all there?

I was thinking of it as alternative B where we keep them out as an empire but don't retcon them away.

EDIT: Seriously? I can only blame it on having been early in the morning.

Caspoi wrote:I was thinking of it as alternative b where we keep them out of the empire as an empire but don't retcon them away.

Well yes we could do that or many other alternatives, mostly variations on the one you already presented seem to be the best under consideration.

In other news besides the Cirnii and all that, what do you guys think of the recent Dev diary on the Heinlein patch? I am excited for the opportunities presented by the planet changes even if I wish I had more information...

I like the more logical grouping system as got quite annoyed at things like the inhabitants of ocean planets being as tolerant to jungle ones as they are to tundra planets.

Caspoi wrote:I like the more logical grouping system as  got quite annoyed at things like the inhabitants of ocean planets being as tolerant to jungle ones as they are to tundra planets.

Yes the new system will be nicer with that groupings and all that.

Also I just realized how stupid I was being. I was thinking that we didn't have enough information of the planets to adopt them then I realized that they only added two and they are obvious.

Dry	Wet	Cold
Desert	Tropical	Tundra
Savannah	Continental	Alpine
Arid	Ocean	Arctic

I'm sorry to see Vagrant go (I also forgot to respond to one of his PMs then felt guilty and neglected it because of it and feeling out of it, whoops), but we all have lives and changing preferences and other stuff so I won't hold it against him.

As for the new climate system, I like it way better. The old wheel was awkward, but I'm glad they've found a better solution. I wonder how Tomb Worlds will fit onto the scale, or if they'll be a separate fourth special category on its own? It'll probably have a base value of being uninhabitable for most life as usual, but it'd be interesting to see if it's less dangerous for some climates than others, such as the Yuxu being evolved in one climate but then bombed into Tomb World status without being rendered extinct by the hostile radioactive climate.


EDIT:
Also, at the bottom of the most recent dev diary: "That's all for today! Next week we'll be talking about Fallen Empires, how they can awaken, and the War in Heaven."

HYYYYYPE!

Offizier Necro wrote:As for the new climate system, I like it way better. The old wheel was awkward, but I'm glad they've found a better solution. I wonder how Tomb Worlds will fit onto the scale, or if they'll be a separate fourth special category on its own? It'll probably have a base value of being uninhabitable for most life as usual, but it'd be interesting to see if it's less dangerous for some climates than others, such as the Yuxu being evolved in one climate but then bombed into Tomb World status without being rendered extinct by the hostile radioactive climate.

It'll likely be base 0 as usual though arn't their already some traits in the game for something like you described? Maybe they were for something else...

Offizier Necro wrote:
EDIT:
Also, at the bottom of the most recent dev diary: "That's all for today! Next week we'll be talking about Fallen Empires, how they can awaken, and the War in Heaven."

HYYYYYPE!

I did not catch that first time around. Thank you for pointing that out. Wonder how that gonna turn out, and mods to make Fallen Empires playable I guess as well will come from that...

Joe, forgive me for being stupid, but what are the differences between ootiona A and C? To me they seem like the same thing.

The Clans wrote:Joe, forgive me for being stupid, but what are the differences between ootiona A and C? To me they seem like the same thing.

I have the ability to make a topic invisible to members. It is a simple cleaning up measure, it would simply be removing the relevant materials from sight. Simply an option in the case of essentially removing the Cirnii from existence ic and being able to remove them from view might be desirable. Simply an option.

I'd rather not wipe them off the face of the galaxy, so it's between death do nothing or explain away for me.

I've made references with both the Chakos and Yuxu that at some point after the Unbidden were banished and human colonies went to Hell, that a robot uprising happened, and that crazy AI cores could still be found within the ruins of tombworlds along with aliens turned troglodytes. It's one of the reasons why planetary exploring is a combined science/military expedition in the Corps, better to have a frigate in orbit to tactically drop some NOPE into dangerous ruins.

The Cirnii could have opened up a ruin and been overwhelmed by a malevolent artificial intelligence during their war with the Jingo Hydras and helped to wipe them out from another front.

The Clans wrote:I'd rather not wipe them off the face of the galaxy, so it's between death do nothing or explain away for me.

I've made references with both the Chakos and Yuxu that at some point after the Unbidden were banished and human colonies went to Hell, that a robot uprising happened, and that crazy AI cores could still be found within the ruins of tombworlds along with aliens turned troglodytes. It's one of the reasons why planetary exploring is a combined science/military expedition in the Corps, better to have a frigate in orbit to tactically drop some NOPE into dangerous ruins.

The Cirnii could have opened up a ruin and been overwhelmed by a malevolent artificial intelligence during their war with the Jingo Hydras and helped to wipe them out from another front.

First of all sorry for not responding sooner, got called away for a little while.

Secondly I'd agree with the whole not just wiping them off the face of the galaxy. Also with you proposed scenario (which is good as the Xengari would be unlikely to exterminate the Cirnii outright) I assume the Mal AI is somehow dealt with and doesn't just run amuck? Do the Chakos realizing what happens from their contact with the Cirnii come in too late to save the Cirnii but able to kill the AI or does the AI just go off away from know space? I ask these questions because an AI that has the power to just kill an Empire is a little scary to have in a local area, especially when the Xengari would be unable to quickly communicate danger to any of the other races.

It would be fun to have the Xengari turn up at the Cirnii home system just to discover a devastated world and possibly the Chakos, an interesting way to have first contact to be sure.

Also, Frigates? Just another term or some mid-range class you'd like to share?